7/27/11

Training Collars?

For the past month or so, the talk around the clinic (which sounds funny because there's pretty much only three of us) is that we need to get Tad under control.

He is extremely intelligent, and general obedience is not the issue. The puppy gate idea is working well, as long as everyone remembers to keep it shut. If the puppy gate is not shut, and the front doors open setting off the little bell...Tad goes nuts and charges the front doors barking, yowling, and having a great time. He then proceeds to jump on the clients. If he gets to the front before they come in, they won't come in because he sounds so scary. This is completely and 100% unacceptable. He is on the verge of having to be kenneled in the back all day. I don't want to do that, and so we're working on him all day every day.

If the puppy gate remains shut, we're fine. However, if I go to the other side of the puppy gate without him, he goes ape-crazy. He starts barking non-stop, and it's not an 'easy to tune out' bark. He learned that the barking device, which sits on the floor next to the puppy gate, only picks up his deep barks, so he barks in a higher pitch. He is no longer affected by that little bark-box-thing.

The only other two options we can think of are a shock collar that is controlled by a human,which I'd rather not...or a citronella collar. I've not experience with either other than the injuries from shock collars from people who use them incorrectly on their dogs.

I'm leaning more towards a citronella collar...it's pain free, that's my goal. However, if another dog is barking (we are in a veterinary clinic) will it spray Tad? Or does it only pick up on the vibrations of Tad's throat...? If Tad is playing, and his neck vibrates...is it going to squirt him?

I guess we could potentially only put the collar on him when I got to the other side of the gate...that may be a good possibility, and take it back off when I come back across the gate.

Opinions? ...or, opinions without stone throwing would be most helpful. ;)

20 comments:

  1. 1) A shock collar helped Diesel NOT go running into the road and becoming a diesel pancake
    2) the new training collars are more of a Vibration to get their attention the a taser.
    3) check out Sit-Means-Sit. They are a Dog Training Business that is all around a bunch of my buddies who are prior air force MWD handlers/trainers do that for living now and may offer better in depth advice.

    Sucks for Tad but if he can't get it with simple training i'd rather collar him for a couple of months then lock him up every day....

    stay strong my friend

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  2. It may take more time, but what about a spray bottle. Spray him in the mouth with diluted vinegar or lemon juice every time he barks. At least at first you will have to start small and stay close, but move further and further away. Maybe in off hours at the clinic you could have someone go in and out the front door repeatedly while you work with him - lots of praise if he doesn't bark and a spray in the mouth if he does. My trainer has me doing this with my crazy mutt and he is a very smart dog and catching on quick. I have to be consistent and tend to praise a lot more than spray because he is learning very quickly.

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  3. We used a shock collar on Kona because she decided that randomly barking her head off at my husband, myself, the cats, the wind (etc) was "OMG THE BEST EVER!!!" We put it on her when we were home, everyday, for approximately a month, month & a half. She learned quite quickly, and the collar never hurt her, sort of surprised her, but it worked. We tried citronella, but my idiot dog liked it...so, shock it was!

    Goodluck!

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  4. I also have a vocal hound. I tried the citronella collar but it doesn't stop Gordon. That said, I find Gordon to be exceedingly stubborn. It may fix Tad right up! I'm still living with the barking & trying to reenforce the good behavior. If you find a solution, please share it.

    Have you talked to a behaviorist?

    How about getting rid of the bell on the door? Is that giving in?

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  5. My dog is a sheltie mix -- awful, high-pitched nervous bark. I almost gave her away, it got so bad. I just could;t take the anxiety barking -- same thing, if I left, she'd lose it.

    We "fixed" it by first teaching her a command and hand signal for "speak" so she knew when to bark. Then we taught a command and hand signal for "quiet" and it worked.

    She is quiet on command at this point.

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  6. ummmm... perhaps do a bit more research on the citronella collar (never heard of this!) regarding your concerns. i'd def do the shock collar as a last resort. wonder what it feels like. wonder if he'd learn from it. have you tried clicker? would that be pointless? i'm not really hip on behavior training in dogs. is he just protecting his domain or is it excessive? - Despina

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  7. I have a citronnelle anti-bark collar. I am a non violent, peace for all person so I was really against the shock apparatus. My furfriends are terriers ((pinscher and parson russells, two highly expressive personnality)) so to learn them was not easy until i used the citronnelle collar. it does not hurt them; it is annoying that is for sure. Know Niko & Pinotte know very well when not to bark. I was very constant in my non barking so as soon as one barked the collar was on & when kept silent a cheer & treat. Know I hear a deep growl instead when something's wrong..... keep the faith :))))

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  8. oh, i forgot; if the dog has the collar while playing too hard but not barking it's okay, until he barks at the other dog....the citronella squirt only by the vibration of the dog's vocal cords. Tad might get that if keeps the tone low he won't have the pshitt but....it works only once in a while because canis lupus is wise but very spontaneous ;)

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  9. Wow, it's like your commenters don't know what a dog trainer is.

    How about contacting a dog behaviorist or a dog trainer first instead of spraying him in the face with nasty chemicals or zapping his throat? He's got seperation anxiety because you've been with him so much. It just takes a little effort on your part instead of physical correction.

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    1. Yes, you are right... but so terribly wrong. I am sorry many have abused you in this blog "comments". Tiff is not too shabby a trainer nor the Vet staff, however this goes a bit more past just general "training" issues

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  10. I don't have experience with shock or citronella collars but I would suggest going with citronella first. I am also working on one of my dogs (the one who looks just like Tad, if you can believe it) he too goes crazy when people come to the door. It's been working when I distract him with alternate commands and treats when people come in. It's not 100% but we're getting there. As for the "seperation" issue, I think it's going to take Tad a long time to adjust. You are the one that saved him and he is obviously completely devoted and attached to you. It's a long road but I know you can do it. One baby step at a time. As a response to Lylu: Dear Lylu, perhaps you have not been following the blog for long, but Tiffany has put in countless hours of effort/energy/love to save Tad, get him healthy and make him the beautiful dog he is today. Seperation anxiety is different with every dog and sometimes it takes a lot more than a "little effort" to resolve the problem. Please be kind with your comments as we all love Tad and only want the best for him and Tiffany.

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    1. Here we are 6 mths later than your blog, but again I have to comment. I can't believe Jad and Tiffany (and Vet staff) have come so far and so successfully. And as the Baroness reminded us, Tad will of course suffer "separation" from his Mummy with whom he spends almost 24 hrs a day with even when she is at work. A friend told me her neighbour who has 2 dogs (in Australia our Councils only permit 2 dogs per household) uses Citronella collars and it sure makes peace for her neighbourhood. Perhaps even buy a bottle of Citronella, water it down, put in sprayer bottle and just spray Tad when another Staff member rings the doorbell and Tad behind (or not) the trainer gate?
      PS.... We spell differently "down under" :)

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  11. Are there collars that just vibrate? I swear I have seen those used before. Or is it that the collar vibrates before it shocks?... I don't know much about them!

    Dear Lylu, please look at the May entries if you have just started reading this blog, or don't remember. Tiffany has contacted trainers and/or behaviorist, but without much luck. Please be informed before you comment, and reread the end of the blog, opinions without stone throwing. Maybe you could suggest someone in her area she could contact, or make the contact for her! That would be more helpful than your comments.

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  12. Lylu, I will assume you've not read any posts in the blog...nor have you followed Tad on Facebook. There's no reason to be so offensive.

    I have contacted multiple trainers. None of them want to work with Tad. I've said that multiple times.

    Tad does not have typical separation anxiety, and this barking has nothing to do with it, in my opinion. He barks because he is not getting his way.

    And, if you think I've put no physical effort into this dog...I suggest you 'un-follow' this blog and find someone else to harass.

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  13. Also, does he "load"up" or "crate" at all? If you're crate training, having him crate up before you go through the fence and be rewarded with a chewy or something equally fabulous to do in the crate could help break the negative associate with separation from you. We're teaching Dinah to crate herself (door open) when someone knocks at the door to prevent the hyper-overboard jumpy guest greetings. She is to crate and is rewarded for calm greetings after our guests have entered (guests are encouraged to ignore her at frost and greet her when she's calm.) Has helped a lot.

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  14. Tiffers...Ok so this could take a while for you to get Tad to do this....but practice makes perfect. Teach him wait @ the door. First, have him standing @ the front door with a leash on and open the door just a bit....if dog moves forward, close door and back him up back walking into his space until he is at his original spot. Keep doing this until he doesn't move when it gets opened just slightly. Then tell him "release" and both of you walk out the door. Practice this until he is consistently staying still while the door is being cracked open...Start all over and open the door a little wider. Keep repeating until you can walk through the door with him waiting on the other side until he hears "release." Once he gets to that point...Try this when people are coming over. Have someone knock on the door or ring the door bell, or whatever..for this you can have him sit. Have him wait while you open the door. If he gets up, have the person wait outside while you close the door, and place Tad back into his original position. Try again....Person cannot come in until Tad stays in position. If person comes in and Tad jumps on them, the person walks out the door. With consistency, this teaches Tad, jumping makes people go away...He can only be greeted by people when all four paws are on the floor. Once he gets this at home...practice at the clinic. Hope this helps

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  15. The one thing I don't like about shock collars is that it can cause more anxiety in dogs. Also if Tad gets shocked around people, he could then associate the person with something negative...making him fearful of people. I know people swear by shock collars, but I have also seen it do some major psychological damage to dogs as well.

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  16. One more thing I forgot to add, If he barks excessively and doesn't settle down when the doorbell rings when people are coming over...don't get up and get the door right away....wait it out until he is calm to go answer the door...then have him do the whole wait at the door while someone is coming in.

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  17. Ok, last post I promise....as far as the separation anxiety, hopefully Tad is food motivated, I have found this wonderful device called the Manners Minder...it is a remote treat dispenser...plus you can have it on a random timer. Works fantastic for separation anxiety. I got my dog used to that everytime he heard the beep, a treat was dispensed. Then, as I walked away, I hit the button and a treat spit out. He sooned learned that me leaving him by himself meant good things to come. The remote is good for crate training/separation anxiety, and basic obedience training...it has a DVD with it too. Then you can put it on a random time so you can be away from him and not have to hit the button so he still continuously gets treats which keeps him occupied while I'm not home for short periods...I video taped him while I was away to make sure he was not anxious while I was gone, and it worked like a charm. Now I only use it once and a while to reinforce that me being away is a good thing. I actually had put his dry kibble in there so he ate his breakfast that way so he didn't get overweight.

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  18. I'm a professional trainer and first off any trainer that would refuse to work with a dog isn't worth spit in my book. Secondly, all the stuph that trainer101 said... do that. He/she knows what they're talking about!

    And Zoe, please find another trainer. Trying to spray a dog in the mouth simply scares the dog and is impossible to time effectively. Anyone that would advocate 'attacking' your dog in that manner needs to rethink their career choice IMHO. Heck just spraying the dog with water when he barks works great, is harmless, and not traumatic for the dog... or you!

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